Why is it that, despite the fact that homeopathy has been shown to be totally worthless,?

Question

......that in this so called age of enlightenment in the 21st century, so many still cling so vehemently what is basically pseudo-scientific witchcraft?

It is becoming almost impossible to respond questions about homeopathy on Answers as so many of these closed minded individuals, who have their heads buried in the metaphorical sands' of ignorance, and for some reason feel unable to question this mumbo-jumbo, insist on blocking those of us who feel we need to try and teach them the error of their ways.

Answer 1

I'm coming a bit late to this party, and I won't get involved in the various arguments and threads that have developed, and stick to the original question.



Basically, the world is an increasingly complicated place and science...or at least, technology...has created a backlash in people longing for simpler, less complicated times. The mythical Golden Age when everyone was healthy or used things from the Earth when they weren't.



Most things in science are a total mystery to the average person. Science is not taught very well in school, it just seems like a collection of facts to be memorized by rote and reproduced for exam purposes....like history or quadratic equations....not useful for everyday real life.



Altmed offers simplicity. Many Altie practices claim that their philosophy is the root cause of all disease (Chiropractic subluxations, TCM chi out of balance) and it offers one stop shopping to cure everything that ails you. It ignores the messy complicated reality that those of us who work in medicine and understand science actually have to deal with. There are no certainties in real life.



People also feel that because it is their bodies, that illness happens to them personally....they are therefore best able to decide what is wrong with their bodies and how best to treat it. Nobody has this sort of attitude when their car breaks down (mechanics excepted)



Man evolved to be a story telling animal. We are hardwired that way I think, so anecdotes are very powerful, primal ways of humans communicating with each other. Statistics, data....facts, if you will....are too abstract and cold for most people. They don't like objectivity, they prefer the subjective. The subjective and the anecdote have been elevated to the Altie equivalent of the double blind randomised controlled trial.



EDIT Alpha Man. You missed the point. You seem to be saying it doesn't matter if we don't understand HOW it works, as long as it works. What we are all telling you is that it doesn't work. There are no good studies showing that it works. There is no rational reason to expect it to work since it violates several basic principals of physics and chemistry. But, no matter, If it did work, doctors would use it, and figure out the how later. But it simply just doesn't work.

Answer 2

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Answer 3

I prefer to have an open mind

I do feel that there are a lot of practitioners who do not understand the principles of homoeopathy and do mislead a lot of people.

I have a problem in that do you include the taking of vitamins within this group. I recently saw an answer that both yourself and Rhianna had replied to, both of you told a young lady that to take extra vitamins was a waste of time, it was unnecessary, however I believe that you should, and very recently I have proved that if I hadn't, I'd be a lot sicker than I have been.

I have heamochromatosis, I have fortnightly vena sections my serrum ferratin is down to 535, didn't feel very well after the last one and asked my GP to check B12 levels as within my family there is also pernicious anaemia, it came back that my folic acid levels were 0.9 not even a whole 1, Where would I have been if I didn't take extra vitamins?

I do think that one must be sensible that if you have tried conventional medicine and it doesn't work for whatever reason then to try homoeopathy cannot be a bad thing. After all a lot of remedies in use conventionally have come from homoeopathic medicine, 1, I call to mind is colchicine, excellent remedy for gout but comes from the bulb/corm of the autumn crocus, used by the Borgias to devastating effect as a poison, when the presented it as an "onion" dish

Rihanna

I think nowadays a healthy lifestyle is not always obtainable, certainly the option of 5 portions of fruit and veg, isn't always feasible, with time being so much at a premium for some people. Therefore the option of supplementing with vitamins has to be the alternative.

I would strongly agree that most people just go to Boots or the like and buy a multi vitamin, without actually getting a book on the subject and learning about it. That would always be my advice. So often people do not realise that with certain vitamins you can actually overdose and cause a lot of problems. Yes a good diet first but if thats not possible know the subject.

Viv

Answer 4

I think this is a good question. The only reason they are getting away with selling homeopathic treatment is because there's a lot of money in it and it does nothing so doesn't come under the usual regulations for peddling a real medicine.



However I once gave out to the pharmacist where my parents live when I went in to top up with some medicine. I asked him how he could justify selling the stuff when he must have had a scientific degree and he knew that it did nothing. His answer gave me something to think about. It went along the lines of "well, we all know most illnesses are going to get better by themselves anyway without any medical intervention at all. So it doesn't matter whether someone sits at home wrapped in a blanket suffering from a cold or sore throat and is taking honey and lemon tea or something homeopathic. Both work on the placebo effect and both work just as well, the important thing is that they sit at home wrapped in a warm blanket than wander the streets in the cold and wet making themselves feel worse"



I think his assessment was right, some people just *have* to take something. At least it stops them going in and nagging their doctor for antibiotics when all they have is the common cold and a sore throat.



ETA



I don't want any hate mail from the residents. You know who you are.

Answer 5

Seems like you are being a bit closed too - and did people ask you to teach them? There is no proof that homeopathy does not work. There are plenty of studies that have found in its favour. Have you not seen the one that established that although there is apparently nothing in the water, the molecular structure of the water is actually changed. Now I am not a huge fan of homeopathy and I have tried it in the past. It has worked fantastically well for some things and not for others. I had a huge abscess on a tooth that was not responding to antibiotics - I got a homeopathic remedy and within half an hour of taking the remedy for the first time a large, raised red circular welt developed on my cheek around the tooth - I took the remedy for a week or so and the infection got better and I was then able to have the work done on it at the dentist. I have also had remedies which didn't do anything. I have also had medicine from my doctor that didn't do anything. Adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs kill 10,000 people per year in this country and the medical profession is the third most common cause of premature death after heart disease and cancers. There is a lot more to healing than we currently understand and many eminent doctors and scientists are studying the mind body connection. We already know how powerful placebo can be - who knows what the possibilities are. The truth is that chemicals don't work very well - they always lead to other issues. We need to work more on preventation than cure.

Answer 6

Dr Frank, SkepDoc, Rhianna - yawn - all the usual septics saying the same old stuff - that homoeopathy is quackery, a con, doesn't work, has never been proved etc. Far from getting tired of people honestly enquiring about homoeopathy, I'm getting tired of your (plr) continual rejection of something just because it has not been 'proved' to your established standards.



On BBC TV this morning homoeopathy was being discussed after a Director of Boots said he didn't know how it worked - of course he doesn't - nobody does for sure! They had as guests a GP (YES - a live working GP - not some retired and grumpy has-been) who prescribes homoeopathy to support conventional medicine, and some pointless Daily Telegraph correspondent who was against it - but had never tried it - she was only there because she was attractive. The lady GP talked of over 100 double blind clinical trials which proved homoeopathy worked, and I have read many studies showing how it has been used on farm animals, with a control group, and those given homoeopathic remedies had a significantly higher recovery rate from, for example, mastitis in cows - so that knocks your placedo argument on the head (although I do believe that could play a part in humans).



The fact is Dr Frank, that just because it doesn't fit into your convenient framework of limited understanding, you reject it - and that is just so blinkered and narrow-minded.

The work done by Masaru Emoto (an internationally renowned researcher) on water is presumably nonsense as well - but if you bothered to take your head out of your a*se and read it - it may well give the reason why homoeopathy works.



Doctors generally are skeptical about anything that they themselves have no control over an/or don't understand - their huge egos mean that they must be the sole source of our treatments - yet they are seriously flawed - their knowledge is so limited (med schools just don't teach about alternative medicines) - and further limited by their own prejudices - Dr Frank is a classic example of that - out of date and stuck in his ways.



I don't know how homoeopathy works, or hypnotherapy, or reiki - but there is no doubt that they do help people. It is time to research their effectiveness rather than be openly hostile just because we don't understand - as if we understand everything so we can make that judgement - Dr Frank clearly thinks he does know everything - what a surprise for an old school GP !!

Just look at the many number of GP's using homoeopathy and hypnotherapy - the rest will catch up in time but in the meantime it is up to people with open minds to progress our understanding - let the old school doctors dish out their pills from their computers - but look back at how historically doctors have failed in their duty to progress medical techniques - they are just glorified pill pushers - I can often get better information from the internet!



I'll be keeping an open mind and avoiding arrogant and closed-minded 'experts' - that is the only way our knowledge of such things will progress.

Answer 7

I Agree.



It all comes down to being deceived. Would you ever trust a word that has passed around by word of mouth - especially if it concerns the effects of drugs? Businesses dealing with homeopathic drugs are fooling people, giving false hope and bogus promises of 'miracles', just to get their pockets rattling with gold. Businesses of such are not credible, and will do anything to attract customers (a.k.a. Snake Oil).



Homeopathic drugs are not effective at all. They are, in other words, on the same level as placebos. People only believe that they will recover, and the mental determination and belief only makes a little difference. The difference is seldom caused by the drug itself.



As you mentioned, the trials have proven homeopathic drugs to be practically ineffective. Chemists consider homeopathic drugs also to be utterly useless and void. Why? Because the homeopathic drug contains so little active ingredients which will rarely even make a difference to one's health. It's like a whole pack of paracetamol dissolved in the sea. It's ludicrous.

Answer 8

I certainly agree with Dr. Frank and Rhianna. People expect miracles on a daily basis from medicine, and when that does not happen they call foul and accuse the medical system of hiding cures in order to maximize their profits. My soon-top-be-exwife, a registered dietitian with a Masters Degree, strongly believes in homeopathy. Of course when that does not work then she hustles in to see a traditional physician. When I ask her about why she takes homeopathic substances, all I get is this round-about mumbo jumbo about how science doesn't know everything, but that she does. Apparently the scientific method is somehow too restrictive. Serious. The only thing I can think of is that somehow the placebo effect is operative in those cases when people claim a cure (or most likely relief from what are probably psychological symptoms). She also believes in astrology and plans her life around it, and tried to do the same for me. No thanks, dear.

Answer 9

Thanks doc. To answer your question; Critical thinking is becoming a thing of the past. People rely on "first person testimonial" way too often. It is unfortunately a powerful thing. I guess we can't expect every one to seek out Double Blind Randomized trials every time they have a question. But, I do expect them to do a little research. The smallest amount of research on Homeopathy totally negates it. It is so frustrating. I am joining you and rhiana in your quest to spread Logical, Unbiased, Truthful, Empirical, Objective information. Check out the Richard Dawkins link.

Answer 10

People need to believe in something magical to give them a sense of being special in their otherwise mundane lives.



My father bought into all sorts of snake oils: ginseng extracts, mega-dosing vitamins, eucalyptus oil to treat ear infections, and healing mud to treat a ganglion cyst. Unsurprisingly, none of it worked. He just wanted to try to keep manufactured and refined substances out of his system, because he didn't believe it was good for him. Other people have that same feeling.



And once again it is my strong belief that out of all alt meds that homeopathy and "no touch healing" are the most useless of the bunch as they provide absolutely nothing, and have no one iota of basis in reality. Chiropractic an herbology are at least somewhat almost plausible.



EDIT: He's not doing it to be malicious Karen, he's doing it to prevent cases such as mine: when I was younger (12) my feet were shaped oddly and caused me much pain. My father brought me to some "foot specialist" in some bizare shop in a mall. They measured my feet gave me custom insolses that cost him a pretty penny and told me to wear them all the time for the next year and it would correct the problem. I wore them the pain got worse, but I kept wearing them until I stomped around the house like frankenstein because i had little control over my feet. Finally at the rest of my family's urging he broke down and brought me to a doctor.



2 surgeries later I can finally walk somewhat correctly. I say somewhat because timely medical care was not provided to me because of my dad's belief that conventional medicine was bad.



That's why Dr Frank is passionate about this, and that's why I am too.



EDIT EDIT: Karen I hate to say this, but you are the minority when it comes to practitioners of alternative (or complimentary) medicine. You claim to be able to help people heal, help people cope with loss, help with stress, or minor irritations. Which I have found can all be helped by the treatments you mentioned (except hot stone massage, that is just plain uncomfortable)



The majority of homeopaths and other alternative medicine practioners claim to be able to cure ANYTHING, usually with the same cure, and better than conventional medicine. And those claims are as ridiculous as claiming 2 advil will cure pancreatic cancer.

Answer 11

They have been beaten down by reason, logic and science, and lack of efficacy. On YA now, what we see from them is either all the usual logical fallacies (such as those presented above by die hard true believers), or yes - they just block us, which is a form of cognitive dissonance. Or they report our questions and answers and have them deleted, which is, in my opinion, childish and cowardly.



Here's what it boils down to: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. They are making claims that are completely implausible, fail proper testing, invoke the supernatural by saying its beyond science. Worse - there is a death toll attached. So lets see this extraordinary evidence.

THE HOMEOPATHS HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF.



Looking forward to my violation notice.



Edit:

irenaaneri1980, that is a strawman argument, does not answer the question and provides no evidence for the efficacy of homeopathy.



Edit 2:

Lightning - you say “Placebo is the most powerful healing force known.” Excuse me? Stronger than antibiotics? I don’t think so.



“it has no side effects” Yes it does – perhaps not mentally, but need I remind you of baby Gloria who died horribly of eczema because her parents treated her with homeopathy (a placebo) instead of conventional medicine?



“(it can) turn around anything from a cold to terminal cancer.” Um, no it can’t. If I’m wrong please provide your peer reviewed evidence for this claim.



“I don't understand why instead of writing off therapies we don't understand as placebo we don't try and understand the mechanism and how to switch it on.” We have a good understanding of placebo response and we are learning more all the time. Everytime you take a pharmaceutical, you are invoking a placebo response with the added benefit of a real biological effect. I recommend a good book that deeply discusses placebo, called “Snake Oil Science” by R. Barker Bausell PhD



“NZ registered Osteopath. Confident that I would remain employed if this actually happened” Sounds like an admission that osteopathy is a just placebo treatment.



Edit 3:

To HealthyBowels: Your are wrong on every level. The homeopathy did not heal your infection. You took antibiotics and a week after that you got better. The magic water had nothing to do with it, and you have no way of confirming otherwise. Wherever you got the 10,000 figure from doesn't matter, what matters is you don't mention the millions and millions of people who's lives are saved or made better because of conventional medicine. What journal is your study published in? Please post a link, otherwise its remains an anecdote.



To Karen: you commit the “closed minded” fallacy. Not believing in something pending evidence is the very definiation of an OPEN MIND. So what would it take for you to change your mind? And please read my comments regarding burden of proof.



Edit 4:

To Alpha Man - usual true believer rhetoric. You didn't answer the question, nor did your answer provide any evidence that homeopathy works.



I don't get what the hard part is - either it works or it doesn't. Post your conclusive evidence that any homeopathic cure works for any condition.



To Lightening, I can't can't respond to your 'response' without committing ad hominems, and that's not my style, so you win.



Have fun, I'm off to Briskepticon! :)

http://podblack.com/2009/11/australian-skeptics-national-convention-briskeptico/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+PodblackCat+(PodBlack+Cat)

Answer 12

Why is it that you keep coming to the Alternative meds site?????

Your the only one that's "closed minded"!!!

If you cant stand the fact that a lot of people get more out of com/alt therapies then stop butting your nose in on here and being insulting and down right rude!

You may not like it, but your going to have to accept the fact that conventional medicine is not the be all and end all...FACT!!!



Rihanna - Unless we provide "scientific evidence" your not going to believe anything anyway, so whats the point in that comment? Instead you should provide us with Adequate,Reliable,Honest, Suitable research!



Tell me Dr Frank....Is it just Homoeopathy you feel is "worthless witchcraft" or do you feel the same towards ALL Alternative and Complementary Healthcare??



Flizbap - I am sorry to here of your misfortune and agree you should have been correctly diagnosed first...before alternative or complementary intervention. I am not arguing here that conventional medicine is the only way for SOME ailments/conditions but not all. I dont rely on alternatives for my children, I take them to the GP because I think with any health condition the doctor should be consulted first and then if it is safe to do so, go onto complementary/alternative healthcare, but I also believe If a person should take the route of alt/comp it should never take the place of conventional medical care as in some cases that would just be foolish. As I have said before I have no "scientific" evidence to prove to you that some of what I do (Reflexology,massage/indian head/hot stone/relaxation therapy) works, all I can go by is the feedback and the positive results I have seen first hand. All my clients have a full consultation before treatment, and if I thought for one moment they needed to see their GP as their health could be at risk or I am not going to be able to help them, then I would advise them so and refuse to treat them, as there is no way I would put any of my clients at risk, my reputation and my clients wellbeing means more to me than money.



EDIT :Flizbap - I never claim to cure anybody, that would be unprofessional and irresponsible, nor do I diagnose with reflexology (I just question my findings), nor do I prescribe (I only advise) or work beyond my knowledge.

P.S What was it you found uncomfortable about Hot stone?



This is just the way I work.

Answer 13

If this helps anybody at all, can I tell you that a friend recently visited an iridologist and came back really impressed and convinced with everything she had been told.



We agreed that I would visit the same iridologist. The iridologist took pictures of my eye and explained that she could tell all about any health problems just by reading the picture. The consultation took thirty minutes. I answered all her questions absolutely honestly.



She told me that I was generally very well. I should take more time to relax and that massage would be particularly beneficial to me.



She completely missed the fact that I have End Stage Renal Failure and Diabetes.



Gotta say, it didn't impress me.

Answer 14

i agree with Rhianna on this its better to stay with Traditional medicine. because if some one gave me homoeopathy advice on my illness when it comes to my thyroid gland and the pill its best that i stick with both medicines that i take for the simple reason that the extrolon is keeping me alive and well one and two my pill prevents me getting pregnant. Good question by the way

Answer 15

Dr.Frank,

All that convential (western medicine) needs to do to wipe out all forms of Alt/Com Med is get people well. Many times, as you well know, that does not happen.

Answer 16

Ask the Queen, she swears by it.

Answer 17

Lack of education. Communities are not educated enough about common health practices, and the science of health.



Although, some prefer the more wholistic approach.



and, having good health is stated as having a sound mind, body, and mood.

Answer 18

Some people seem to like to believe in magic. There is no logic with these people. It's akin to people who believe in the paranormal.

The same group of people want a pill to make them lose weight without having to lift their bums off the couch, a pill to make their breasts bigger, a pill to make them grow taller etc. These people live in a fantasy world. There is no reasoning with them. They are unable to rationalise.



They want a belief system, rather than a system of medicine.



I think part of the reason many people turn to alternative 'medicine' is because they feel let down by conventional medicine, usually because they have unrealistic expectations of it.



Conventional medicine isn't perfect, but you have to remember that nature does not care whether you live or die, nature kills and that means we have to do something unnatural to save lives. It isn't perfect, doesn't' always work and can in rare cases cause side effects. -We don't claim otherwise.



Mistakes have been made in the past but that does not mean that all conventional medicine is bad. At least our drugs go through clinical trials are science based and have some evidence of efficacy.



Science and medicine does not claim to have all the answers.



Edit:

Doctor j, find me ONE piece of credible scientific evidence that proves homoeopathy works?



The onus is not on us to prove homoeopathy doesn’t work, it’s on the homoeopathic-advocate to show evidence that it works.



Edit 2:

Dylan, the question was about homoeopathy. The thalidomide tragedy was 40 odd years ago, Medicine has come along way since then. Drug testing is much more sophisticated. Mistakes were made, NO ONE is denying that. We can't turn back the clock, all we can do is learn from the mistakes that were made and this makes medicine BETTER.



Edit

Irene, with all respect, you haven't really answered the question. I quite like your answers, because we agree on many of the same things but this question is about homoeopathy. Your answer is a logical fallacy.



I notice that NO ONE has actually provided any evidence that homoeopathy works.



EDIT

Karen: As I said before, the onus is not on us to prove homoeopathy doesn’t work, it’s on the homoeopathic-advocate to show evidence that it works. We have provided links to credible studies that have failed to show homoeopathy works.



You haven't actually answered the question, instead you have come on here telling tales that people are being insulted. Dr. Frank hasn't insulted anyone.

This has nothing to do with conventional medicine. Dr. Frank is simply asking why do people believe in something that has no plausible scientific rationale?



Edit

HealthyBowels: Ridiculous argument. What about all the millions of lives we save each year in comparison? I have said this before, if you want to go down the statistic road, why not compare the death rates with conventional medicine to death rates with alternative medicine and death rates with no medicine at all!



It's easy for the alternative medicine brigade to distort facts. I'll use my insulin example again, if an insulin dependant diabetic becomes hypoglycaemic from taking insulin, this itself is classed as a drug reaction. But if insulin dependant patients didn't take their insulin they would likely die.



EDIT

Vivbiker: Vitamins are only essential if you are actually deficient in certain vitamins. If you are not, you do not need to take added supplements. Can I just point out that taking vitamins is not the same as eating fruit and vegetables. What we are trying to say is that rather than taking vitamins, people need to follow a healthy balanced diet.



Certain vitamin deficiency can occur despite of this, some people have malabsorption issues, but that's a different matter altogether.



Edit

Alpha: that was personal and unnecessary and you still haven't offered any credible explanation; in your own words you don't know how it works, so how can you defend or buy into something you know nothing about! This is the point we are making. No one gives a f*uck what you or I think, they want evidence. Lame answer. A true sceptic will always keep an open mind and with most things I/we do. But in my opinion, taking all things into consideration, it really is time we closed the door on homoeopathy. We have wasted far too much time and money on this illogical concept.

Answer 19

I guess you'd need to be either a person or a person related to someone who feels homeopathy has succeeded where all other mainstream Western medicines have failed in order to answer this question.



But hey, if the Harold Shipmans of this world can't cure our dear relatives, why should we bother exploring alternatives... ?



I'm told Electroconvulsive therapy is still offered to certain patients today, despite the fact that the Gods of Western medicine couldn't tell you why it works, let alone why it doesn't work for most people...



And best not to mention Thalidomide...



http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/national-news/126966-thalidomide-victim-critically-ill-in-royal-liverpool-hospital.html



'Conventional medicine isn't perfect'



It so evidently isn't. See the above link et al, then put your son or daughter in his shoes...



The irony of Dr Frank's accusation of closed-mindedness is what radio comedy was made for. Go on Frank, admit your infallible mates f*cked it up, you'll feel much better for it... ? Or is your ego really that flawed that real people's lives matter less?

Answer 20

Hey Doc - please provide ALL of the SCIENTIFIC REFERENCES that support your "belief" that "homeopathy has been shown to be totally worthless". And, please review the classic work of Karl Popper (surely you know who he is!) on the extreme difficulty in scientifically proving a "negative".



Best wishes. I'm looking forward to those references.



You need to start reading with a 'critical eye'. "No convincing evidence" is NOT the same as proving something is totally worthless - not even close. And, your BBC 'reference' is not the actual scientific paper. Reference the source - not stuff form journalists! And, remember the work of the brilliant scientist Popper - don't worry known of the other people on this site will know him either but he is HUGE in the discussion of the 'scientific process' and legitimate knowledge acquisition.

Answer 21

Dr Frank i do hear your frustration and i feel that you are a nice person and a good doctor and you did do a good differential diagnosis on my question previously:)

However,for you to be heard & respected, you'll have to start looking in your own backyard first and dealing with the pseudo-scientific witchcraft there ie:60-70% of psychiatry.

If your going to be perplexed why people believe in homeopathy then you should also do something about the unscientific things in the medical community or at least speak up about it here.

I see these skeptics making alot of questions & answers about how Homeopathy is pseudoscience & some even calling Herbal Medicine pseudoscience without showing any scientific evidence however i dont think i've come across one answer or question where they've stated that they believe that certain things in Conventional Medicine is pseudoscience & stating their beliefs about those things.

Granted-this is the alternative medicine section but still you think there would be some mention of it at all in their answers if they're not biased or just going off emotion or have some hidden agenda.



Do you accept the unscientlfic things there in Conventional Medicine but not the unscientific things in homeopathy?

If you do then you'd be a hypocrite who has no interest in truth but simply "debunks" homeopathy out of bitterness or fear or ego or competition/jealousy and is biased and not interested in truth & protecting people.

General public isn't stupid,they can tell when someone is coming from some bitterness or emotion & they can tell when someone has a genuine interest in truth & is fair regarding truth & scientific evidence across the board in both Conventional medicine & Alternative Medicine.



So do you accept that some of psychiatry,a field which for some reason was accepted into Conventional Medicine, has much pseudoscience and/or witchcraft in it itself or do you have your head buried in the metaphorical sands of ignorance?



What are your thoughts on Hypnotherapy used in psychiatry?is this not pseudoscience-true?

Please give me scientific evidence regarding it.

When i say scientific evidence i mean objective,scientifically measurable evidence regarding the "science" of Hypnotherapy and not studies that have shown it works.I can also show you studies that say that "Reiki" works.So hats good for one "therapy" is good for the other.Either we accept both or we accept neither-true?.That is why i ask for scientific evidence regarding it and not just studies that show it works/can work.



What about the psychiatric DSM IV manual "diagnosises" of "Schizoid" personality type or "Malingering" or "Stereotypic movement disorder"?

Please show me objective,scientific evidence that they exist



☻It is true that there are people that are shy or withdrawn but what they need is help to socialise & have fun not a label of "schizoid" which has no scientific proof that it exists.

☻It is true that there are people that lie but again it is what it is,some people simply choose to lie-there is no scientific proof that it a PSYCHIATRIC disorder called malingering.

☻it is true that children may sometimes make repetitive movements such as body rocking,or head banging or holding their breath but this is either a disipline issue eg:due to being angry at not getting a toy for example or it is due to a medical illness(and there is evidence for that) however theres no objective,scientific proof that something called "stereotypic movement disorder" exists & that its a PSYCHIATRIC disorder



It says as criteria "thumb sucking,nose picking,nailbiting"

WOW-i though all children sucked their thumbs,picked their noses & bit their nails.





Also,What about the psychiatric DSM IV manual "diagnosises" of "caffeine intoxication" disorder and "Frotteurism"?

Please show me objective,scientific evidence that they exist?



☻it is true that if you drink too much caffeine you can get physiological negative effects just like some other drugs or herbs.However please give me objective scientific evidence that "caffeine intoxication" is a PSYCHIATRIC disorder.

"Caffeine Intoxication" is clearly not a psychiatric disorder."Caffeine intoxication" is from drinking too much coffee/caffeine drinks which in turns has physiological consequences.

We'd all have "caffeine intoxication disorder" if we drank enough cups of coffee.

☻It is true unfortunately that there are some people in the world which rub up against others for sexual gratification-which psychiatrists have labelled "Frotteurism" but please show me objective,scientific evidence that this is a PSYCHIATRIC disorder?Its not a scientifically proven psychiatric disorder-it is instead bad behaviour & criminal activity.

(This of course excludes people who do this who have medical illnesses like dementia & dont intentionally & willfully do this)



Dr Frank are you willing to admit that in this so called age of enlightenment in the 21st century,there is still some pseudoscientific things done in certain branches of Conventional medicine?

If you are then you've gained my respect at least for your honesty and fairness.

If people are wanting to "call out" homeopathy and be taken seriously then they will get further by also addressing the pseudoscientific things in Conventional Medicine





Edit-

i dont take serious any links to articles from Stephen Barrett.Hes a quack claiming that others are quacks.Lets not forget that hes also a retired psychiatrist(although not board certified) -a profession which as i have shown above has its own special form of pseudoscience.

Also,you cant help but be very suspicious of how a retired psychiatrist on his income was able to afford to pay for the fees for the numerous court cases that he lost.

So i can only assume unless proven otherwise that Stephen Barret has financial interests & financial ties which cloud his judgment to report fairly & honestly regarding (the large field of) Aternative Medicine treatments/products).

In the court of law Stephen Barret had to admit his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and FDA.

Theres much more respected sources you could use rather then quackwatch



http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/alternative/22058/Dr-Stephen-Barrett-of-Quackwatch-Exposed-In-Court-Cases

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm